The Lawsuits Thread

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Granna
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The Lawsuits Thread

Unread post by Granna » Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:53 am

Even though Vanessa COULD give knowledge because JD & her were in contact during this time - I truly believe both Vanessa & Johnny want to keep their kids out of this mess.

I believe the reason for scheduling these ladies - AH & the SUN thought they had this in the bag. With the revelation of Ms. James yesterday, the SUN must now fall back and regroup to try and salvage what is left of their case.

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Newt
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Unread post by Newt » Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:57 am

That's my thinking. They know they've lost and are now trying to save face, knowing nothing would come of them testifying.

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FlowerBySea
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Unread post by FlowerBySea » Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:06 am

I agree, the Sun has to be panicking a lot since Kate James' statement yesterday. I wouldn't be surprised if Amber gave a sixth witness statement without the sexual assault allegations - but we would still be able to read the fifth witness statement. So now they kind of have to stick to it, even though she was already discredited.

The kids have unfortunately already been dragged into this, with no relation to physical abuse towards Amber (there was a lengthy discussion about Lily-Rose smoking pot for the first time). I thought Vanessa and Johnny were aware of this, and she volunteered to testify for him and clear his name.

Same with Winona, why would the Sun want her to testify and not Kate Moss? It would make more sense to have Kate because she was there for the hotel incident. I assumed Winona had offered to be a character witness for Johnny.

I basically thought all of Johnny's witnesses came after his testimony and all of Amber's came after she testified. So I assumed that Johnny's witnesses had volunteered or been summoned by the court - not by the Sun's request. Then why would the Sun be authorized to basically un-invite them? If the witnesses were all requested by the Sun, then their selection doesn't make much sense to me.

I'm sure someone here can explain how this works...

Edit: I think I just had an epiphany - can someone verify if I got this right?

The witnesses released their written statements, some in support of Johnny, some in support of Amber. The legal team of the opposing side then gets to grill them about their witness statements, ie people right now are being questioned by the Sun's side about their statements in favor of Johnny. Then Johnny's legal team gets to comment / elaborate on the Sun's questioning.

So basically, not hearing Winona or Vanessa is really no loss for us at all, because all it means is their written statements are taken as they are - without prodding by the Sun's side to find flaws with them.

Same as when they didn't want to hear the second police officer testify. His statement still remains. I got confused because I thought their evidence / statements wouldn't be taken into account if they weren't heard, but that's not the case at all. It just means they aren't questioned about them.
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AdeleAgain
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Unread post by AdeleAgain » Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:18 am

So I think this is how it works.

Each side presents their case through witness statements. It is not necessary for all of the witnesses to be spoken to- in which case the judge will just take their witness statement as read.

This as a positive. The Sun don't want to hear Vanessa and Winona say what a good guy he is - knowing in particular that this will definitely get lots of headlines sympathetic to him. (BTW watch while the anti-JD camp spin this as them refusing to testify or changing their minds.) I agree that after Kate James - the Sun/AH do not want any more strong, independent women speaking up for him.

Their testimony stands. They have no experience of JD being abusive, do not believe it from their knowledge of him. Shame though as I'd have like to have heard it - except I fear Ms Wass might have brought up Winona's shoplifting and Vanessa and JD's text exchange which were clearly private jokes and simply show they've continued a banter relationship even after they split.

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Unread post by Inquiring Minds » Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:24 am

FlowersbySea wrote:
Edit: I think I just had an epiphany - can someone verify if I got this right?
I'm no lawyer, but I believe you have this correct. If they aren't called, their WS is accepted unchallenged (although the judge will decide whether to believe it and how much weight it should be given).

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FlowerBySea
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Unread post by FlowerBySea » Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:33 am

Thank you, AdeleAgain and Inquiring Minds! Let's hope we got this right!
AdeleAgain wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:18 am
The Sun don't want to hear Vanessa and Winona say what a good guy he is - knowing in particular that this will definitely get lots of headlines sympathetic to him.
Yes, and I think they especially didn't want to give them a chance to emphasize no sexual violence occurred during their relationships. Their witness statements as of now probably only refer to violence in general.

Seems like they had planned Amber's new allegations to be sort of a shocker, once all of Johnny's witnesses had given their statements and nobody could jump in for him anymore. Now Kate James spoiled the surprise and they have to re-strategize.
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Unread post by Inquiring Minds » Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:35 am

Someone else has posted previously that with the trial running late, Amber's testimony will spill to a Monday start with 3 straight days and she will no longer have the weekend to regroup. By not calling Winona and Vanessa they gain another day back.

But I agree with AdeleAgain that the way the trial has been going so far, every attempt to discredit a witness has been a spectacular fail - and Kate James dropped a HUGE bombshell imo. I guess they are relying on Amber's poise on the stand to carry the day :harhar: :biglaugh:

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Unread post by FlowerBySea » Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:14 am

That might have been me, I definitely thought it was a good thing her first day would be Monday and not Friday... But alas.

I think Ms Wass got a few of the witnesses sweating a bit, Kevin Murphy I think went a bit unfortunate? But it's never about Johnny being abusive, she hasn't gotten any further proof for her claims.

Nick Wallis just tweeted this: "Just to recap - no Winona or Vanessa oral evidence as the NGN case is that JD hit AH - not anyone else. Therefore WR and VP not required to be cross-examined. That’s agreed between parties. So their written evidence will not be challenged by NGN."
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Unread post by AdeleAgain » Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:24 am

I think all of the witnesses have had their moments of feeling uncomfortable at the hands of a top flight London barrister. The most saintly person would. But what were some of these moments?

Sean Bett has just confirmed that he put into evidence a photo he thought was from April but was from March - already alerted both sides before the case began. He made a mistake and apologies - saying - he had a lot of these pictures!

Kevin Murphy was forced to admit that he did indeed commit perjury for AH in Australia - but also got the chance to say that as soon as they divorced at his own cost he got legal reps to make this right.

Hilda didn't want to comment on JD's drinking (I suspect because she didn't know much).

But which one of these has said "do you know what - you are right, now you come to mention it, I did see him hit her, just the once mind you ...."

No. No one. And not one single one of these witnesses has walked out of the witness box having crashed or thrown any significant doubt into proceedings. Just my opinion.

Love how Ms Wass has finally remembered that Adam Waldman is supposed to be the puppet master - she's only just started bringing him in - presumably lining up to pummel Laura and how she was bullied.

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FlowerBySea
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Unread post by FlowerBySea » Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:35 am

You're exactly right, she got nothing to support their claims of Johnny being abusive. It was at most uncomfortable for some of the witnesses themselves.

The previous statement I quoted about Winona and Vanessa was apparently wrong - it was Johnny who dropped them as witnesses, according to NGN.

They sent an email to Nick:
"Your tweet just now at 12.10 Is inaccurate. Paradis and Ryder have been abandoned as witnesses by Mr Depp.

Their evidence is NOT agreed by NGN and had they attended would have been cross examined by us. To avoid confusion I suggest you amend the tweet. We will raise this issue in court but thought it best you should know this to ensure fair and accurate reporting of the case.”
Now I'm beyond confused again. I thought we had just figured everything out! Maybe Johnny's team feels his case is so strong they don't need to put Vanessa and Winona through testifying anymore? Maybe they there should be more focus / time spent on other witnesses?

Johnny's team is saying they didn't abandon them as witnesses, they're just not calling them in. Which would mean the Sun / NGN rushed an untrue email? I thought calling in witnesses was up to the opposing side, can either just do that? In the case of the second police officer, it was Ms. Wass who said he wasn't needed after all.
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Unread post by Lbock » Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:53 am

I would say for sure the photos released to the public have been filtered/amplified. All the photos we saw (two incidents) clearly showed bruising. Now all we hear is "a slight red bruise starting to come up" apparently barely decernable. Their defense as to why some witnesses saw the bruise and others didn't and also possibly how she could cover the bruise with the slightest, undecernable layer of makeup.

BUT FOR THIS MORNING:
Big mistake on Depp team that the photos released by Adam to show Amber punched him on his birthday, are of the wrong night. The metadata shows these to be the March argument where Amber accuses him of cheating with Rochelle.

Also, currently a big disute over Depp Team no longer wanting to call Winona or Vanessa, but want their witness statements in. NGN says, if we can't cross, they are completely out and no witness statements released to press.

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Unread post by FlowerBySea » Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:01 am

The problem I see for Amber is that there are no pictures that show her injured in a way that would match the violence she claims was inflicted on her. She's talking about having her head bashed against the wall repeatedly, hair pulled out in clumps, being dragged over broken glass etc. like it's a Quentin Tarantino movie. The pics don't add up.
Last edited by FlowerBySea on Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread post by Lbock » Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:01 am

Alright. Winona and Vanessa are out of the trial, but the media can release their witness statements as they have been referred to in previous hearings, etc. I think this means their testimony is no longer evidence, maybe not even hearsay.

I think Depp Team realized the direction of NGN's Defense: Basically, he was having a midlife crisis. Left his partner of 14 years for a much younger woman. Returned to his bad boy ways….reliving his destructive youth.

Winona and Vanessa testifying that he never behaved badly might appear to support this.

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Unread post by myfave » Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:07 am

I really don’t understand why they would drop WR and VP.
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Unread post by AdeleAgain » Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:08 am

I think there may be just a difference of emphasis - 'abandoned' sounds dramatic - like they did something wrong or JD's team thought they would.

No one has ever said NGN accept their witness statements of course they don't.

But the court take the witness statements in as they are - with no other comment.

I suspect JD's team felt they couldn't add anything else and might detract (Wass - well you didn't see anything, you weren't there, so why are you here now.) So why put them through it. Their witness statements stand as they are.

JD's side might also want to be getting though this on their side so they can get to AH and her witnesses? I also think if they had to make a choice JD's team want witnesses who actually saw stuff - like the neighbour and building staff.