The Lawsuits Thread

[FlowerBySea]

I could swear I saw that missing "fake punch" footage, or is my mind playing tricks on me? I can't find it anywhere online, but I was so sure I'd seen it.

Yes, I am sure I have seen this footage online too.

Me too! I assumed it would have been in one of incredibly brians videos, but its not apparently.

I also went through his old videos to find it! We can't all be misremembering, it has to be somewhere

I didn't have a chance to watch her entire testimony yet, but I agree about Kate James being standoffish. As much as we'd like to say "yes girl, you go show your anger" - from what I've seen so far, she came across pretty bitter and biased, evading questions and getting snappy for no reason.

The counselor seems to have made up her own mind, but she was still a good witness in my eyes. The right questions were asked. At the end of the day, what we got from her is this: Amber being violent was discussed multiple times and also by Amber herself when both of them were present. Violence coming from Johnny was only brought up by Amber in 1-on-1 sessions. The counselor never saw any abuse happen. It's all word of mouth. The only basis for her assumption that they were both violent is Amber's word and her own interpretation. The fact that she's not taking either side gives her testimony more credibility.

It made me sad to see Johnny's bitter laugh when the counselor said he's very verbal and articulate when he's not being interrupted.

The Twitter discourse is taking weird directions for me most of the time so I'm thankful for the Zone now more than ever.

[Itsausername]

Yeah the counsellor is very articulate and the summery I took is they are both volatile to the point of aggression but that AH took it to a new level and started actively instigating physical violence to get a reaction from JD so that she could tell everyone after. This isn’t historically something JD would do, but it is something AH does. AH brought out the worst in him.

[Itsausername]

Oh dear, JD character whiteness will be struck off. Poor thing looked a jumble of nerves.

[ForeverYoung]

Yes, I am sure I have seen this footage online too.

Me too! I assumed it would have been in one of incredibly brians videos, but its not apparently.

I also went through his old videos to find it! We can't all be misremembering, it has to be somewhere

I didn't have a chance to watch her entire testimony yet, but I agree about Kate James being standoffish. As much as we'd like to say "yes girl, you go show your anger" - from what I've seen so far, she came across pretty bitter and biased, evading questions and getting snappy for no reason.

The counselor seems to have made up her own mind, but she was still a good witness in my eyes. The right questions were asked. At the end of the day, what we got from her is this: Amber being violent was discussed multiple times and also by Amber herself when both of them were present. Violence coming from Johnny was only brought up by Amber in 1-on-1 sessions. The counselor never saw any abuse happen. It's all word of mouth. The only basis for her assumption that they were both violent is Amber's word and her own interpretation. The fact that she's not taking either side gives her testimony more credibility.

It made me sad to see Johnny's bitter laugh when the counselor said he's very verbal and articulate when he's not being interrupted.

The Twitter discourse is taking weird directions for me most of the time so I'm thankful for the Zone now more than ever.

I think I remember seeing it also and I believe Rocky was with them and they were all laughing, but the something happened to the tape.

[myfave]

Their counselor was not helpful to Johnny at all. She says both he and Amber were destructive and his relationship with her triggered violent behavior

Based on her previous relationships she get triggered into violence quite easily.

The counselor was referring to HIS behavior.

[myfave]

Yeah the counsellor is very articulate and the summery I took is they are both volatile to the point of aggression but that AH took it to a new level and started actively instigating physical violence to get a reaction from JD so that she could tell everyone after. This isn’t historically something JD would do, but it is something AH does. AH brought out the worst in him.

Yes but sadly according to these witnesses it went both ways. I am very sad about this. He said he never struck her but what’s being said today says otherwise.

[AdeleAgain]

Ref the therapist:

- The 'mutually abusive' notion came from the therapist's separate conversations with AH - JD was not there and able to contradict that. It goes once again to "Amber said" - Amber said he'd hit her, Amber showed her photographs etc

- Remember this testimony once again totally smashes her claim (repeated by Elaine in opening) that AH had only hit JD once in defence of her baby sister. No - by her own words and by this testimony she has lied again. She hit multiple times, she is not a victim of violence

- Andrea has done some good responses not this. She thinks JD's team have introduced this early so that it can be used for impeachment purposes. The therapist is apparently a mutual witness and the two sides have agreed to the presentation in this way.

[Judymac]

I have zero knowledge in law but Isaac breaking down and going off about what Amber has done to Johnny WITHOUT being interrupted by Elaine or Judge Penney (which kinda stunned me) had a huge effect on people, and I'm guessing the jury. He did beautifully and is hailed as a godsend for a reason but that moment especially is going to leave a mark.

It's not the judge's place to make objections for the lawyers. The Judge is a neutral party and is not going to help either side by making the objections for the lawyers. EB should have made an objection. That was a huge, major major scew up by EB. A good lawyer never allows a witness to ramble on and give damaging testimony. EB should have objected and asked that part of the testimony to be stricken from the record. She also should have asked the judge to tell the jurors to disregard that testimony. If EB would have objected the judge would have also told Isaac that he was only to answer the question. I am sure Johhny's team was extremely happy over EB's screw up.

[Judymac]

I think Johnny's side is doing a good job. But, they messed up calling Gina Deuters to the stand. It is the lawyers job to prepare their witnesses. Johnny's lawyers should have anticipated that Gina would be asked if she watched any video about the case. Johnny's lawyers should have asked her that question when they were preparing her to testify and then not called her as a witness. A person can only testify to what they actually saw or heard (I dislike that word). When a witness watches video it brings up the question, are they testifying to what they saw or heard or are they recalling something that they saw on a video? It casts doubt on the credibility of the witness.

I consider this a minor setback. It is nowhere near as bad as the goof that EB made when she let Isaac get in unsolicited testimony.

[AdeleAgain]

It is a shame about Gina and I feel really sorry for her I bet she is in pieces right now.

But the judge can tell the jury to strike what they've heard - they still heard it. She didn't say anything game changing but what will the jury have heard? Another person saying Amber was the more aggressive? Amber gave her MDMA? Another person saying what a great guy Johnny is? Also on the back of Kate James hearing the Gina was treated as the hired help!

I also think Gina would not have done well in cross examination - she was so nervous.

I am slightly worried what impact this may have on Stephen who I sense is also a quiet, shy person. Are they not allowed to be together until he testifies? Is AH's side going to complain if they've seen eat other?

So Eve Barlow is sitting in court with her phone causing issues. What pieces of work these people are. Can you

[justintime]

Ref the therapist:

- The 'mutually abusive' notion came from the therapist's separate conversations with AH - JD was not there and able to contradict that. It goes once again to "Amber said" - Amber said he'd hit her, Amber showed her photographs etc

- Remember this testimony once again totally smashes her claim (repeated by Elaine in opening) that AH had only hit JD once in defence of her baby sister. No - by her own words and by this testimony she has lied againDr. . She hit multiple times, she is not a victim of violence

- Andrea has done some good responses not this. She thinks JD's team have introduced this early so that it can be used for impeachment purposes. The therapist is apparently a mutual witness and the two sides have agreed to the presentation in this way.

Yes! Thank you, AdeleAgain, for your critically important comments:

> Most egregious, this marriage counselor/psycho-therapist went on to clinically label the problem between her clients based on what only ONE of the couple is telling her AND she does so (for Court purposes!) when only THAT ONE participant is present. Very, very bad move.

> Dr. Anderson is a mutual witness and has breathed new life into that cowardly term mutual abuse. The only mutual “abuse” between Johnny and AH is their war of words. When Johnny says, “She gave as good as she got.”, I believe he was referring to their verbal battles and insults, that form of abuse that triggered each of them, albeit in totally opposite ways. AH escalated the battle to physical violence, and he “escalated” the battle by leaving the scene, abandoning her. I don’t for even a millisecond believe he ever struck her.

> If nothing else, I guess the impeachment process might force Dr. A to clarify or even rethink her mutual abuse diagnosis: mutual consent absolutely should have been secured in the first place. Johnny is not a liar and allowing this to stand is saying he is just that. The more I think about it, the more disappointed I am in his team. No wonder he left that courthouse like a bat outta’ hell this evening. I hope he is all right.

[Judymac]

It is a shame about Gina and I feel really sorry for her I bet she is in pieces right now.

But the judge can tell the jury to strike what they've heard - they still heard it. She didn't say anything game changing but what will the jury have heard? Another person saying Amber was the more aggressive? Amber gave her MDMA? Another person saying what a great guy Johnny is? Also on the back of Kate James hearing the Gina was treated as the hired help!

I also think Gina would not have done well in cross examination - she was so nervous.

I am slightly worried what impact this may have on Stephen who I sense is also a quiet, shy person. Are they not allowed to be together until he testifies? Is AH's side going to complain if they've seen eat other?

So Eve Barlow is sitting in court with her phone causing issues. What pieces of work these people are. Can you imagine the fall out when Eve and Amber fall out, that will not be pretty.

I will try to give you an analogy about Gina's testimony. It's probably not the best analogy but it's the only one I can think of right now. If a person is playing golf and they are not following the rules, then none of their score counts. Gina did not follow the rules so none of her testimony counts. If a judge tells the jury to disregard testimony, the judge trusts that the jury will do what they are told. There is an implied trust that jurors will do the right thing.

I hope that this makes sense. It is past my bedtime and my brain is not functioning at full speed.

[AdeleAgain]

Back to the therapist. This is a six week trial we are very early in and JD's team is laying down a narrative - one part of which is that Amber planned a hoax - she told all sorts of people different contradictory things.

The things that will come back from this are the 'jack hammer'; the fact that the mutual abuse thing was concluded from talking separately to Amber; and the question about should she file a police report - the therapist said Amber was 'strategising for herself'.

When AH is on the stand I believe JD's team will (jack) hammer home that she has lied so many time including under oath that for example she only hit JD once, when that clearly isn't true. So if that isn't true, why is anything else true.

But (groan) we all know what she's going to say on the stand - the therapist isn't talking about her she's talking about Johnny and Amber never said any of that .......

[AdeleAgain]

Andrea Burkhart has said it much better than I could - nice tweet.

Think of the trial like the Tour de France - very long, different stages and no one can win every stage.

War not a battle!

https://twitter.com/aburkhartlaw

[RumLover]

I could swear I saw that missing "fake punch" footage, or is my mind playing tricks on me? I can't find it anywhere online, but I was so sure I'd seen it.

Yes, I am sure I have seen this footage online too.

I am sure we never saw it. Concierge Trinity Esparza said in her deposition she showed it to other staff. She wanted to show it to lawyers checking video but she was instructed not to be helpful so it was not included on the subpoena. Until Isaac's testimony, I don't think it was said that Trinity had shown it to residents.
I think there might have been an animation of punch that someone made based on Trinity description.